Anti-Neocons

Ok you jabronies a missile did not hit the pentagon a plane DID hit the pentagon. Now there is a movie being promoted by AOL saying that a missile hit the pentagon. This is classic disinformation. Don't you guys wonder WHY loose Change films and the Pentagon strike got SO highly circulated on the web over other 911 films????

Its is a set up, they will make a big hype about the conspiracy theories and then they will release the film showing a plane hitting the Pentagon.

Then it will be over for the 911 truth movement because no one will believe people who have to switch their story.

You guys the plane wings are made of aluminum they don't tare a hole in a building like a cartoon character running through a wall. Plenty of people saw a plane going towards the pentagon and NO ONE saw one leave. Why the hell would they use a missile instead of a plane? It is just stupid. There is no motive to make things more complicated.

This is a disinformation set up.

I can just tell by all the no plane hit morons who over lap with the people who believe in space aliens etc. I first starting hearing it from people who were like 15 they tagged the schools with the pentagon strike video first and gave it some kool music, then they edged it into Loose Change which does not mention the Israeli connection what so ever and I don't think it was just because it was produced by Jews. (Korey Rowe / Dylan Avery / Jason Bermas) They just aren't making the connections. This film was a remake of other 911 films offering no new information but it saw way more publicity and added in some really ridiculous stuff like pods attached to the planes and of course the missile theory.

It is fine to entertain the idea and look at the evidence but you get what you look for, try looking into the evidence that a plane DID hit the pentagon. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html Refute that.

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This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
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Booga booga Iran... Meanwhile Israel secretly built hundred of nukes using technology stolen from the US. Everyone knows it and no one does anything about it.

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ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

You're absolutely right. Also the makers of Loose Change are really full ogf shit, some good point though.

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The secondary explosions were about the only true information in that film. And they took it all from previous films like Road to Tyranny which had the exact same stuff about building number 7. Loose change has offered NOTHING new and yet they did add a lot of speculation and disinformation, these boys got used. That is why they go so heavily promoted. By covering the truth in a mountain of crap the neocons can later show a video of a plane and point to the easily falsified crap pile and dismiss the solid evidence by association.

I really wish people would stop saying amissile hit the pentagon. Why not just stick with the hard evidence? Building 7 and the 5 dancing Israelis and PNAC.

_________________
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

Booga booga Iran... Meanwhile Israel secretly built hundred of nukes using technology stolen from the US. Everyone knows it and no one does anything about it.

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

I think you're right Ry. It has been pretty heavily circulated. Hell, even the Iranians I was talking to in PalTalk were spreading that link. But I also think that it would be a great way for the Administration to discredit folks if they released a video of a plane hitting the Pentagon. But either way, there are so many types of folks and reactions to factor in. Many people would claim that it was computer animated in the video and released to shut people up, after they had bought a theory on a missle.

What I want to know is, how did the guy in Loose Change get a satelite image of the Pentagon marking out the path of the plane prior to 9/11? Why would anyone be taking satelite pictures of the Pentagon prior to? Just doesn't make sense to me.

I mean hell, I don't 100% without-a-doubt know what hit the Pentagon. I have read all around, I have seen the little bullshit clip they released, I have read the ATC's saying "they thought it was a military plane" because of how it manuevered, so my personal conclusion is that it was a military plane, but I can't call that a fact. There had to have been someone out there with video of it, but is too afraid too release it, or maybe destoyed it in a panic.

_________________
Kings rule men. Wise men rule kings.

Albert Einstein once said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing". So remember, before you open your mouth, you may very well be just another idiot with 49,999,999 people standing behind you that are just slightly dumber than you.

There's lots of statistics and data for stuff. I reject 100% of it, 99.9% of the time. Add that to your statistics, asswipes!

Intellectualism can be funny sometimes because, when being used as a defense mechanism, they THOROUGHLY demonstrate to you that they are an idiot, versus, just giving you a hint, like the regular idiot.

"You guys the plane wings are made of aluminum they don't tare a hole in a building like a cartoon character running through a wall. Plenty of people saw a plane going towards the pentagon and NO ONE saw one leave. Why the hell would they use a missile instead of a plane? It is just stupid. There is no motive to make things more complicated. "

Okay let's get a few things straight. The first plane that strikes the Tower, CLEARLY shows the damage from the wings against the side of the building. PERIOD. As for the rest of what is on the WHATREALLYHAPPENED page is all EASILY refuted.

It's very easy to tell an uniformed audience that the wreckage of the plane "slid into the building" when you show pictures of what the Pentagon looked like forty minutes after the crash, instead of immediately after the crash, when there was indeed a very clean, round sixteen foot hole.
Now, if the plane supposedly "slid" into this opening, where is the evidence or damage of two nine foot high, 6 ton titanium alloy engines? Forget the wings which show no damage whatsoever, but CLEARLY DO show damage at the Tower site. Where are the impact marks from the engines?
Well that was easy.
The Whatreallyhappened piece goes on toexplain that in my "cartoon world, Airplanes do not make clean outline holes in buildings they collide with any more than cars make clean outline holes in walls they collide with." That's true, and when you don't present the ACTUAL evidence of the crime scene and show what the building looked like after the building collapsed, you can say anything you want. The fact of the matter is that punching a clean hole in the Peantagons wall is EXACTLY what happened and this information cannot be refuted. PERIOD.

To go further into the lies posted by WHATREALLYHAPPENED the author writes

"The "Pod People" will no doubt scream that the above photos are fake, just as they have insisted that all the photos which show debris at the crash site are fakes, and just as they scream that the witnesses to the passenger jet at the Pentagon "have to be" wrong. But witness-smearing is the exact same tactic the government has used to silence contradictory witnesses from JFK to the shoot down of TWA 800.

As the "Pod People" use the same tactics, they reveal who they really are. "

Funny how a person claiming to have some sort of integrity purposely distorts and hides information so they can go on a kooky emotional rant. The above photos aren't fake, they just don't show what the crime scene looked like immediately after the attack, and therefore back up no conclusions whatsoever, unless of course you live in a fairy tale. Refute that? A child could refute the ridiculous illogical nonsense being posted on the WHATREALLYHAPPENED post.

I have to agree with WRH's stance on the jetliner at the Pentagon, since it matches the evidence, including the 100s of witness reports. But there is more to it. These witness reports are rather mundane, uninteresting, insignificant, ordinary, nothing-to-see-here-folks, move along - don't read them.

Hi - I'm new here. Nice looking forum!

Look, I dont think anybody's going to refute that a plane hit the Pentagon. The problem is WHAT KIND OF PLANE? And therein lies why the missile argument keeps popping up: something has to explain why there are two identically-sized ingress and egress holes, over a hundred feet apart, through a combined nine feet (2.74 metres) of reinforced concrete. [Two of the largest conventional Earth-Penetrating Weapons (EPW) in the US arsenal are the GBU-28 and GBU-37. They can penetrate six metres, only twice the amount of the Pentagon combined concrete. http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/n ... apons.html]

People -- logical, everyday, working people -- have a problem buying that a Boeing 757 hit that building. This doesn't take genius. It doesn't take a physics degree, nor does it take 911 fanaticism or a need for wearing tin-foil.

If you tell logical, everyday, working people that the reason why there are no skid marks on the grass, and why the first photos taken by the National Airport firemen who arrived on the scene within ten minutes of impact show no damage to the ground outside the blast ... if you tell logical, everyday, working people that the reason why this is so is because the plane vaporized inside the building, then you cannot subsequently ask these same logical, everyday, working people to believe that investigators found body parts and could identify the DNA of ALL passengers, and that a seat cushion made it through a fire in which two six-ton aluminum and titanium fuselages over nine feet in diameter could not.

You're asking logical, everyday, working people to believe in the fucking tooth fairy.

Furthermore, you're asking logical, everyday, working people to believe that a Boeing 757 could fly 500 miles/hr only 20 feet over the ground and crash into that building. All this, of course, without the fuselages making the slightest dent in the ground, which they would have to in order for the nose to hit where the photographs showed the plane hit. Since the fuselages of a Boeing 757 are nine feet high and hang below the wing, and the wings are on the same level as the nose of the plane, those fuselages would have created ten foot trenches BEFORE they even struck the reinforced concrete wall. And if by some scientific fluke they did not, then at the very least there would be trenches -- or some disturbance to the flooring -- inside the building fore of the ingress hole; had to be because the whole plane had to be inside in order to be vaporized. And there were none. The floor of the Pentagon was undisturbed. Hell, some of the columns were still standing in the DoD photos; moreover, there were metal desks in those photos that escaped the same fire that 12 tons of aluminum and titanium fuselages managed to succomb to.

This isn't rocket science. This is shit you can figure out with a tape measure, and plane specs.

I could go on and on for pages about the obvious anomalies, but I was encouraged to join this forum because of the strident tone you're taking about the Loose Change II video. Look. The somnambulant American public has to be tapped on the shoulder somehow. They have to be woken up with something. And LC-II plants the seed of doubt. It does its job. Particularly with bobbing heads who believe the official jive, and that BushWhack can do no wrong.

None of this is going to be resolved without a criminal investigation into what happened. But first you have to get the criminal investigation going. There has to be a rallying cry for it, like the illegal aliens spontaneously marching down the street. But it hasn't happened yet because not enough people are outraged that there was something sinister in the BIG LIE we were told that day. It's too much for many to accept. If you think PNAC did it, guess again. You need to get yourself ahold of Victor Ostrovsky's books and read them IN THE ORDER he wrote them, including the two novels (you can only find these books used - check out the reviews on Amazon).

Want to shake to the bottom of your core? At the end of one, Ephraim Helavy tells Ostrovsky that the Mossad had changed its mind, and that the new enemy they were going to create and go after was Saddam Hussein, their former buddy. That was 1990-1991. Those PNAC assholes are just following orders. This has been set up ever since then, and it is my personal opinion that it is far more sinister than you could ever imagine. Israel, the country -- not, NOT, Jews, this is not an indictment of a religious group -- is a blood-sucking financial parasite glommed onto the side of the USA whale. (Dont even think of hurling anti-semitism at me for this comment. As a Catholic, I would think the same of Italy if it were debasing and milking US interests in the same way.)

BTW, the majority of official "eyewitnesses" to the Pentagon crash were military men. [read:http://www.911-strike.com/eyewitness_explicit.htm] Read the report there by one Frank Probst. His last name should be Improbable. He reports that he saw the plane coming straight at him and that he managed to jump out of the way in time to have the fuselage miss him by six feet. SIX FEET. With a plane traveling 500 mph? Do you know that the thrust of a Boeing 757 engine TAKING OFF ON A RUNWAY is so powerful that it will blow an 18-wheeler sideways 100 feet? How did Probst survive with his hearing after the plane passed him by? Anyone who has sat beside an airport to watch a 757 come in knows that its roar is deafening even from 200 hundred feet away. How did this guy's eardrums survive within SIX FEET; much less how was he able to resist the vacuum of an object going 500 mph, then get up and walk away without being blown by the thrust across the Pentagon lawn?

There are too many unanswered questions. People come up with the missile theory in a desperate attempt to make some sense of it all because it's obvious you can store one in the belly of a plane. That's kinda logical, when you think about it. Something had to create IDENTICAL holes 100 feet apart, or whatever the exact diagonal distance was from the outer ring to the far side of the C Ring.

If it really was a 757, then the US govt ought to ditch the GBU-28 and GBU-37 EPWs and just load up a 757 with a few tons of high-explosives and use that as the most lethal EPW known in the world today. If a 757, ALL BY ITS LONESOME, can go through approx three metres of reinforced concrete, just think what it could do if it was weaponized.

So, I am back to my opening salvo. Sure, a plane hit the Pentagon. But what kind of plane?

The answer to the question "what sort of plane?,"
is:
"exactly the sort of plane that would cause hundreds of mutually compatible witness reports to converge on an AA-marked Boeing 757."

Easy, huh?

Focusing on anything else is really a waste of time--perhaps a deliberate one--and detracts from the much suppressed--not overlooked--fact that an AA-marked Boeing 757 was accompanied by a gray C-130 electronic warfare aircraft (piloted by Lt. Col Steven O'Brien of the Minnesotta Air National Guard) for several miles through restricted airspace to military headquarters where it exploded violently.

Well said aucuneconnerie. The facts are what what they are. Release the video proof of a 757 hitting the Pentagon and it will be done. Oh wait, our government confiscated all the video evidence and chose to release 5 frames which proves squat! It was pointed out earlier that the wings of the planes are made of aluminum and cannot penetrate steel reinforced concrete like "a cartoon character." That being said, how do you explain the cartoon-like "melting" of the "commercial aircraft" into WTC 1 & 2? The same argument would hold true yes? Aluminum aircraft wings, tips, and nose penetrating steel reinforced concrete like a hot knife through butter. Yeah right!

The whole damn thing is a lie and needs a REAL investigation.

AlreadyPublished,

Well....except that the "hundreds" of witnesses you quote, in the main, saw a commercial airplane with AA colors, but many of the reports were of a commuter plane, and other types. Read:
http://www.911-strike.com/eyewitness_explicit.htm
Jamie McIntyre, CNN Pentagon correspondent, was the first reporter on the scene and I remember him saying there were no plane parts. Then we heard from other witnesses living in apartment buildings and watching from the freeway describe how what they saw ranged from a eight-seater commuter aircraft to a major jet. The sightings were not consistent by any means.

"Focusing on anything else is really a waste of time" is premature. Directing the research in any direction or towards any conclusion at this stage is premature, and violates the laws of good investigative procedure. Until such time as a criminal investigation starts in earnest, the collection of data, anomalies, and stuff that is peripheral, is the first order of business. Everything should be accepted under the banner of "duly noted," and nothing should be left out. I dont think this should be a pissing contest to see who's right. We're not there yet. We do not have enough information and credible data collected. A criminal investigation is the only thing that can force discovery of the evidence before more is destroyed (ie: air traffic controller tapes.)

I, for one, am not wedded to any outcome or point-of-view. I know bubkes. Only thing I know is that the official view didn't make sense when I watched it go down. Doesn't make sense today.

Dug,


Problem is they'll probably release it once they remake it. If Star Wars could be created on a computer over 25 years ago and be believable, imagine the skill set now at the military level. They'll make it so good you'll be able to see the sweat on the passengers.

For an interesting insight into one graphic forensic investigator's work on the Pentagon photos, go to www.st911.org, the Scholars for Truth site. Scroll down the left panel until you see Jack White's name. It takes hours to go through his presentation, but it is really compelling. He notices the switcheroo in the color of the cars outside the blast, how the cars switch from scorched to not-scorched, how they moved around in the week following 911, depending on who took the photo. He is very exact.

Interesting new people...welcome(i say with suspicious fervour whilst squinting my eyes)

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someone must be linking to this thread because it has over 1,400 views already and I didn't even plug it. ah see it is on Whatreallyhappened.com ok so we had two links on there in two days. Glad they are listening.



The WTC outer casing is not made up like the pentagon's concrete and steel, it was more like a misquito netting. You can not make that comparison.

It is not easily refuted because no one has a refutation. They just regurgitate the same junk that is on Loose Change and other films full of disinfo

_________________
This site is against war, Zionism, (or any other form of racism), profiteering, and all forms of government corruption, mass media deception, and cover ups. This is not a site to flail on about space aliens-illuminati-masonic-dealcult-jewish-catholic-lizard-lucifarian-jesuit-queen-barvarian-etc bull hockey. Take that junk somewhere else.
My Twitter
"It doesn't matter who we are underneath. It is what we do that defines us." Batman

Booga booga Iran... Meanwhile Israel secretly built hundred of nukes using technology stolen from the US. Everyone knows it and no one does anything about it.

Google version of War by Deception (Magic Bunnies)
Pass HR 1207 and S604 audit the Fed



ry ryan dawson author politics political antineocon anti-neocon antineocons anti-neocons raising the volume of peace - news the media is paid not to tell you how they blep you

Funny how you think that the Pentagon's concrete and steel would somehow be resistant to the wings of an airplane in a plane crash and show no signs of damage from the wings whatsoever. And incidentally, the Twin towers were constructed to withstand a plane crash, it isn't "like mosquito netting" as you imply. Furthermore, I love how you say I haven't refuted anything and you steer clear of tackling the issue of why there is no damage on the ground or front of the building from two 6 ton jet engines. When you have the courage to deal with the issue, we can talk about what has been refuted and what hasn't. Whether the information has been offered up in Loose Change or whether it is my own conclusion makes no difference. What matters is that you present no answer to why there is only a 16 ft. hole at the Pentagon immediately following the attack, which matches the impact of a bunker buster missile, not a commercial airline crash. I'm not saying that a drone didn't fly into the Pentagon after firing it's payload, but to ignore the evidence and issues is ridiculous.

In addition to what is stated above it is important to understand Rabbi Dov Zakheim's role in all of this as well, something that doesn't get talked about enough. A full ten years before 9/11, the good Rabbi was the owner and President of Controlled Planning Systems. At CPS, the company successfully engineered technology that allowed them to remote control fly up to six commercial airlines at once from a control station, as well as perfecting technology that permitted the takeover of planes mid flight, in essence effectively thwarting the possibility of attacks similar to the ones carried out on 9/11. Who and where was Dov Zakheim on 9/11? In the Pentagon, at his job as the Undersecretary of Defense of the Bush administration. A rabid Zionist with means, motive and ability from within the current regime.

Frank stop defending the pentagon disinformation bullshit you tool! You know it's bullshit.

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Notice how once again, that the average person who defends lies or refuses to look at the truth, resorts to name calling and has nothing to say about the actual issues presented. It brings me joy to know that none of you have a leg to stand on when it comes to defending your positions, and you actually expect intellectuals to get thrown off course by calling them names and using the scary word "disinformation". What disinformation? Disinformation like suggesting that a plane traveling 500 miles wouldn't have it's wings or 6 ton engines cause visible damage to the lawn or walls it is crashing into?
Because the wings are made of aluminum? Someone wants you to believe that the wings made gashes at the Twin Towers but not at the Pentagon because the buildings were very different in their construction. What about the lawn? Grass? And don't worry that the nose cone punched it's way through five walls of concrete and steel while making another 16 ft exit hole on the other side. The wings/engines caused no visible damage because Ry says so and someone else has called ma a tool. Wow, what a cogent argument. When you get to Oz and see the Wizard, let me know how it works out for you.

Where did he call you a name? You seem to be throwing your fair share of insults and egoism around too. Don't be a hypocrite, rise above? I 'unno.

Frank, whatever you are arguing FOR, do you have any proof? Or are you basing your conclusion on things that you know to be true without any proof? Just trying to figure out why you are so sure of yourself. I don't feel I can side one way or another. I went to school for aviation mechanics, (A&P license), and I have done construction since I was 15 years old, and I STILL don't feel qualified enough to say, for a fact, one way or another which one is true. What really should matter isn't WHAT hit the Pentagon, more than WHO hit the Pentagon. This whole "battle of the conspiracies" all seems like a way to divide the movement to find out, if you ask me. But either way...

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Kings rule men. Wise men rule kings.

Albert Einstein once said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing". So remember, before you open your mouth, you may very well be just another idiot with 49,999,999 people standing behind you that are just slightly dumber than you.

There's lots of statistics and data for stuff. I reject 100% of it, 99.9% of the time. Add that to your statistics, asswipes!

Intellectualism can be funny sometimes because, when being used as a defense mechanism, they THOROUGHLY demonstrate to you that they are an idiot, versus, just giving you a hint, like the regular idiot.

Why don't you actually read the posts before commenting. People on this forum are suggesting that a missile did not strike the Pentagon and the evidence is quite simply to the contrary. As for the name calling, again, read the posts and you will see that kassana called me a "tool" in the post directly above the one you are quoting, simply for stating fact. And Ry started the thread by calling everyone an idiot. I agree with the division analogy, but quite frankly it's important to discuss what happened in an accurate manner in order to properly disseminate who is responsible. Right? As far as discerning which situation regarding the "plane" is true (regardless of your aviation background) look at any picture the world over showing the aftermath of a bunker buster missile entering a building, then compare those photos to the ones at the Towers. Then look at plane crash site photos. This is easy, very basic stuff and it doesn't take an aviation background to decipher. Common sense and an open mind are all you need.
Is Israel involved? Of course. London based Int'l bankers? Well they dictate policy in every other way. Rogue elements within our on government? Of course. I'm not denying any of that. I'm pointing out that if you are going to refute an argument based in reason and logic, you need to use those same tools to defeat the position. Name calling doesn't do that, and neither does saying that something is "bullshit" or "unbelieveable". Let's stick to the facts. The crash site at Pentagon simply has more hallmarks of a missile attack than that of a commercial airline crash.

So basically, you don't have any proof? Is that the gist of it? Not messin with ya, just saying, inorder to stick to the facts, you kind of need proof that it is indeed a fact, isn't that right? All I know to date is that the Air Traffic Controllers said that what they saw looked like a military aircraft. Regardless of what the hole looked like, (and I'm afraid that you need more than common sense to come to a conclusion on structural engineering/failure). Common sense would be, "it collapsed because of the gaping fuckin hole", not how the hole was formed. How many photos have you seen of the damage a military drone plane does to reinforced concrete/non-reinforced concrete, to rule it out, (since you seem to be basing your conclusion on photos)? Reinforced concrete can spiderweb like glass, in a small circle, if struck with a sledgehammer... why couldn't it do the same with a plane? I dunno. Like I said, I could really care less what hit the building, honestly... was just trying to find out why you are so certain of yourself over the rest of these folks.

_________________
Kings rule men. Wise men rule kings.

Albert Einstein once said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing". So remember, before you open your mouth, you may very well be just another idiot with 49,999,999 people standing behind you that are just slightly dumber than you.

There's lots of statistics and data for stuff. I reject 100% of it, 99.9% of the time. Add that to your statistics, asswipes!

Intellectualism can be funny sometimes because, when being used as a defense mechanism, they THOROUGHLY demonstrate to you that they are an idiot, versus, just giving you a hint, like the regular idiot.

One other thing. I am ignorant as to how bunker buster missles operate. If it is true that a bunker buster missle was used, wouldn't there have been a larger explosion at the ending ring than in the outer ring? Isn't it's purpose to break through layers of dirt, THEN, once inside, detonate and destroy a target? Would make slightly more sense to me that a missle was used if that was the case, but in every "photo" I have seen, the last hole was the smallest.

_________________
Kings rule men. Wise men rule kings.

Albert Einstein once said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing". So remember, before you open your mouth, you may very well be just another idiot with 49,999,999 people standing behind you that are just slightly dumber than you.

There's lots of statistics and data for stuff. I reject 100% of it, 99.9% of the time. Add that to your statistics, asswipes!

Intellectualism can be funny sometimes because, when being used as a defense mechanism, they THOROUGHLY demonstrate to you that they are an idiot, versus, just giving you a hint, like the regular idiot.

I'm not basing my findings solely on the photos, but since the wreckage doesn't jive with a commercial airline crash and does jive with damage caused by a missile it warrants further investigation. The building falling down has nothing to do with whether or not a missile was used, the evidence consitent with a missile being used is what matters. That is changing the subject entirely. I didn't say you need common sense to talk about the structural failure, I said you need common sense to compare photos. Until you have done this, how can you conclude that "more" than common sense is needed? The engine recovered from the pentagon was less than three feet in diameter, it did not come from a commercial airliner. And as I stated before, if it was a commercial airliner what happened to it's engines, and why did they not cause any damage? Your claims of concrete spiderwebbing and the notion that the plane might do the same thing does not address why there are no impact marks whatsoever from 2 six ton engines. I'll repeat myself as many times as is required, and will not be bested my semantics and circular logic. BTW bunker buster missiles have many subcategories and payloads can be detonated allowing the shell portion of the missile to continue on it's path to create an entry hole.

I wasn't saying a commercial plane hit the building. I said, (also as Ry here has suggested), that a military drone plane may have hit the building. An unmanned, drone plane, not a commercial plane. Just to make that clear. I'm not buying the official story either.

What we all should stick to, (even you Ry), isn't what hit the Pentagon, but who ordered it. We can all go round and round with this. This is being done for a reason... which is why I have stayed away from this topic for the most part. I honestly don't give a fuck what hit the Pentagon. All I care to know is who did it. Finding out what hit it has insignificant relevance as to who ordered it, since that is the main objective here isn't it? We know that it wasn't a commercial plane, and we know that we were lied to by our government. Let's run with that. Our government lied to us. People lie when they have something to hide, otherwise, they tell the truth as it stands. That is an example of a fact. And with that fact alone, I know that this government of ours was responsible for orchestrating the attacks. Drop the side issues folks. They aren't helping anything.

_________________
Kings rule men. Wise men rule kings.

Albert Einstein once said, "If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing". So remember, before you open your mouth, you may very well be just another idiot with 49,999,999 people standing behind you that are just slightly dumber than you.

There's lots of statistics and data for stuff. I reject 100% of it, 99.9% of the time. Add that to your statistics, asswipes!

Intellectualism can be funny sometimes because, when being used as a defense mechanism, they THOROUGHLY demonstrate to you that they are an idiot, versus, just giving you a hint, like the regular idiot.

I agree 100%. What I'm saying is that if we aren't discussing the significance of Dov Zakheim, or the fact that the United States government has perfected the use of depleted uranium warheads because of their unique penetrating power and accuracy, then we aren't getting any closer to who did this. We need to look closely at what happened at the crime scene in order to connect the dots. If everything is speculation we will never bring the criminals responsible to justice. If we can discount the official story, but also show how our own government is complicit because of the exact weapons or tactics used, then we are that much closer to naming the guilty party or parties. Right?